(And, PS, I do have a raise in the works at the part time job.... have to accomplish some "goals" first but yeah, that should be coming, and every little bit helps!). If it's cash, then it has to be covered. It just stayed over spent and that was that. It's a weird quirk of the software; wasn't sure if you knew about it. For example, I budgeted $20/mo for my trash service, which is … If the balance should be negative, include a negative indicator '-' before the amount. If there's a negative balance, there's a reimbursement that hasn't been paid. Only now all the overspending has disappeared. The inability to not forward the negative balances, the new reconcile "feature" and not being able to categorize income as "income for next month" are extremely disappointing. I actually felt this way for a short time- it was a relief to hit the beginning of the month and see all the budget categories at zero instead of full of orange bubbles of over spent amounts. Transaction-wise, it's the same: categorize outflow and inflow to the same category. $84 Cash Left Over From March -$34 Budgeted This Month $50 Available This Month. I would rather have a way to specify that for this particular category, every overspending is carried over to the next month as a negative balance for this category, instead of being deducted from the overall budget. For someone who knows what she's doing -- and I grant that not every YNAB user does -- this just creates busywork, not awareness or accountability. dakinemaui Well that is what I said I do. Was coming over from Mvelopes, but now I'm going back...this is the one feature you guys need to enable to get my business...there are TONS of legitimate reasons for negative balance carryovers in certain situations. That wasn’t the point I was going for English was never my strong suite. You take all the money you currently have, and split it between a bunch of envelopes. However, in this case, the OP is talking about timing-induced overspending, so the relevance of that "cover from lower priority categories" view would seem to be greatly reduced. Cognitive dysfunction works in mysterious ways... Annieland Ha, yeah a little inconsistent, but you're wiser now. HappyDance This only works if you like to see no "red/orange" at the end of the month, and don't follow the ostrich mentality of ignoring the fact that your actual CC balance goes up but your over spending disappears on the first. Obviously I had to make sure I was overall covered not to go to zero, but that’s where the numbers up above the budget kept me on track. (Eventually I plan on getting an extra month ahead on my rent so I am actually budgeting July's rent this month (which once I get a full month ahead otherwise would have been earned in May). Ultimately, though, the why is quite immaterial. We haven’t had the travel expenses for a year, but now I see charges coming in for all this fancy A/V equipment, and am told “don’t worry, work is reimbursing me.”  At this point I’m just covering those expenses with budget money and nagging him until he files and gets reimbursed. Turquoise Wildebeest I'm not sure if you've seen it, but you don't need to carry negatives if you use the recommended approach. I fully believed when CVS Health bought out Omnicare and we lost $50,000 in revenue per month that I was toast. Just. With reimbursements specifically, YNAB is no help at all keeping track of whether or not I have actually been reimbursed for my expenses, since there is no link between expenses and payments, and no way to balance negative months with positive months in the reimbursement envelope. Otherwise, I don't think it has any advantage over YNAB, and is actually more work to use them both in conjunction. My credit card due dates aren't set to the first, so I can have things that lapse over the course of a month if someone pays me for something I ordered before my due date. Or I could have mis-interpreted. What was often happening was that I was entering my final pay check of the month, covering all the over spent categories, and then attempting to fund my categories for the next month, but it often left me short, which put me into over spending for the next month, and then again, the final pay check of the month would cover the categories and I'd start all over again. That being said, the process is quite straightforward. Clint Are you categorizing both outflow AND inflow to the reimbursement category? When I dove into YNAB I made a concerted effort to embrace the entire methodology. How would you like this handled?" Part of Rule 3 is use of relative priorities to guide reallocations -- if you wipe out the overspending, you no longer have insight into the priority of the overspent category. You can keep the number in front of your face with a prefunded category with a target balance goal. Many times they take a while to come back if your employer requires you to submit medical expenses to get reimbursed from a HSA or flex spending account. * Temporary debt - move funds to the CC Payment category when the Reimbursement category turns green. Also I had a second-row seat to that particular merger, since one of my brothers is reasonably high up there. Similar need here as other members have asked for. This isn't a corner of the internet where ad hominem arguments hold water. Budget $X to the category as a one-time setup (establishing the offset). So, instead of that $9 and some change coming out of our total money available to budget for July, we have it carry over in the specific gifts category and carry a slight negative balance in that specific digital envelope. Is it an overdrawn account? I've been using YNAB since their version 4 Desktop App days, and quite frankly the Desktop App is still my favorite. The color of the category gives you an indicator whenever you need to move money to the CC Payment category. dakinemaui I agree, but SFTF may be hiding that a bit based on some of the things the OP has said. I've been struggling with this issue for months, and finally decided to ask if I was missing something. I don't want YNAB deciding that it doesn't think it's a "good practice" and zero out the category so that the over spending just disappears into the ether. It's worse than "not obvious" -- it's flat out misleading. YES! Now see by sharing that I'm sure I will get everyone saying how horrible I am for allowing that. Less important means I don't need to explicitly pay it back. How exactly are you suggesting to "forcefully fix" it? This is where YNAB really shines in terms of helping you save a ton of money. This will also help keep your reports happy since your spending will be offset by the amount of the reimbursement. Right now I don’t care anymore, just sticking up for crud I can’t find his name- it’s buried on me. Very rarely is over spending on the credit card. Reach goals, easily track … dakinemaui Yeah, I mean, when I get hit with my internet bill twice in a month because of weird timing issues on their part, I cover the "overspending" and move on with my life, knowing that the timing will shake out eventually. That causes the budget in question to be overdrawn, with a negative balance. This is where YNAB really shines in terms of helping you save a ton of money. I'm going to have to go with Brandon here. (I know, probably not a surprise to you.). You are right about the reconciliation being trivial. Someone who had a written, traditional style budget of "This is how much I'll make" and "This is how much I hope to spend" could easily mirror that in YNAB 4, entirely sidestepping the method's principal foundation on not budgeting more money than you have on hand. The bug is in the lack of notification. Then when I finally get paid, I have to remember to put the money somewhere else instead of back into the correct category. Just kidding, I saw your earlier note. Do you understand how to use YNAB to track and eliminate credit card float? dakinemaui wow that’s a lot of moving around but i can “sort of “ follow it. However, in reality, you take the cash from another envelope, or, as in the case where you have a general savings balance, you take the cash from there. This will create a positive in that category. Maybe tell YNAB to contact you after they've added a reimbursement solution to their software. As much as I find a lot of things about YNAB super duper annoying, I agree with WordTenor that no one should be surprised that YNAB is building a software that is modeled on the YNAB methodology. When you receive the reimbursement, categorize it to the same category used for the expense. WordTenor Shyeah, right. I think that's partly what most of us are asking for. It is not generic budgeting software. They pay the CC more than needed and/or have too much cash tied up in the Payment category -- the very cash they need to avoid overspending. As I said, Stealing From The Future is a known bug, and I'm probably the most vocal person on here about the need to fix it. Positive Reviews: YNAB — Budget, Personal Finance - 10 Similar Apps, 4 Features, 5 Review Highlights & 30,122 Reviews. I really liked the old YNAB. I don't mind elaborating a bit here for exploration's sake (though I suppose this does sort of hijack the OP's original thread...). OTOH, if you're talking about taking it out of the current month's TBB (when your rolling period ends in this month) and next month's TBB (when your rolling period ends in next month) -- I believe far more users will be confused by that inconsistency than they are at present. It's very frustrating to have that balance disappear and have a blank zero at the start of the new month. YNAB turns off the warning at the end of the month. If you always fund all your goals it’s fine, but if you don’t, it becomes really easy to miss some debt being created. Reach goals, easily track every expense, and gain total control of your money. While we don't have any plans to bring back the Red Arrow, we understand that reimbursement handling isn't quite ideal. What is impossible is to have a cash envelope have negative money in it. I HAVE to find a way to deal with the reimbursement issues , without letting things reset to zero. If you know this month your rent is coming out on the 1st AND the 29th, then you have to make sure you have enough money budgeted to cover the spending on the 29th in THIS month. This is what software is for! Not that the idea of ageing your money is bad, but as implemented ynab's AOM metric is somewhat meaningless, and the idea of ageing your money anyway, in my mind, is more of a result of budgeting than an specific rule that needs to be followed. To enable a larger payment, you simply budget to the CC Payment category. This is how YNAB helps you avoid debt: it tells you … Hide Total Available. I have an almost constant problem with the web app version because it will not carry forward negative balances, and this screws up all my tracking. Budget Accounts: Budget Accounts are the bank accounts you usually spend money … Do you not have CC rewards categorized as TBB? That could be a solution for some people too. (YNAB's official documents are in error in this respect, suggesting use of Inflow: To Be Budgeted in some cases, and will lead to issues with reporting and spending totals.). It's really a label that in credit cards these two work and why they have exactly the same way you'll get a payment category for it'll show up under credit card payments all that stuff. February 1st when I sit down to do the month's budget knowing I'll make a set wage (which now puts me in the red because I don't have the funds yet). It should be MY problem to work out what to do if the money doesn't come in for what I over spent on, not YNAB to assume what to do with it. Green means move.). Again, its a personal preference. Set a Target Category Balance goal for the current balance in the category. And although the numbers may appear high because each post makes the front page and becomes a thread of advice, if you consider that there are thousands of users of YNAB, actually the percentage is very, very low. Hi, yes, thats what I mean... the numbers are there, but there’s so signal that something is amiss, like there is when inflow or an envelope is overdrawn. Negatives don't...? nYNAB. nYNAB Carry-Over Question. I need to remember who owes me what. I'd suggest taking it out of an emergency fund, with the understanding that in a severe enough emergency you could pull it back. The money listed as available is less than it should be, and....well I this plagued me for months until I realized what was going on, and now I know that after the first of the month I have to go back and change the dates of a hand full of transactions to make this work. To see the total owed, Search for the Reimbursement category in the account, Select All, and the Total is what is owed. But that doesn't change the fact that leaving overspending in a category is doing it wrong. I'm sure there's a long complicated reason that won't work for you, but nothing is perfect for everyone. On a different note, you don't need the tracking account if you find the lack of a payee field objectionable. When you set this up in your YNAB budget, you’ll see a new account listed with a negative balance of -$2,400 showing up in red text. I am a user for 2 months now. I've spent about 20 hours (support, training, videos, reading articles, elbow grease) in the past few weeks trying to migrate data and change my philosophical approach in the areas of "overspending". WordTenor Very much agreed! It's so much easier to track things that way when you need to be paid back by others. What I've done is create a fake "Dummy" account. Just thought I would say hi and commiserate. The inflow of borrowed money (debt) is immediately cancelled out by your purchase (expense). The best place from which to reallocate is the lowest priority green category, which is usually easier to see in the current month. All my expenditures for work travel go against that category. But we definitely need to improve reimbursement handling, and I don't think these things are mutually exclusive. No warning, no indication anything is wrong. farfromtheusual  Exactly. If you ignore that your card balance is going up and up, and keep overspending and not correcting it, at some point, you have to take responsibility for doing that. We don't overdraft on our account because of accruing savings categories and money coming in during the current month is budgeted next month. I have funds for things like unexpected medical bills. That doesn't mean we should give them a chance to fix it first. OP is talking about timing issues. I can't look at Yellow... maybe toolkit blue for a day or two, preferably in the next month. I don't see that changing in order to save people a bit of effort. I'm looking for a feature. It could then theoretically just sit with a negative balance forever not forcing you to do anything about it and all the while allowing you … make sure all the expenses are reimbursed)  The category often will have a negative balance, because there hasn't been time to be reimbursed. (Think about Windows upgrades). This is ridiculous that this is still an issue. - toolkit-for-qustodio/toolkit-for-qustodio Close. But the "strict" ways of YNAB did teach me to build in some more security (including for the early bills), before using it all to pay extra on the mortgage. So while my situation is ridiculously TIGHT right now, it won't be this way forever. dakinemaui Thanks! We shall see. To others that involves SEEING it in the account balance. Close. I hate when softwares think they know better than we do and try to "protect" us by taking away features. But the next morning (Thursday) I was getting the direct deposit for my next paycheck. I have to admit I like how the new YNAB pulls data from my banks frequently automatically now, I find myself using it more because of it, as it's current as sometimes I'll have a bunch of receipts that I have sit and enter, now it's just sit and categorize them :). I think it's time for me to end my 8 year run with YNAB. This is exactly what I want for reimbursable expenses!! My 34-day trial expired Thursday or Friday, so April was the only month I used it and I never got to see how balances carried. Budget, Budgeting: Budgeting is when you make a realistic, flexible plan for the money that you have in your possession right now. Pink Yearling I would have said don't hold your breath, ynab isn't changing this but now they are rolling out pending transactions and they have a budget changes audit trail on deck. It's up to you, but there are a lot of very long term users here who have been on both sides of the coin and though YNAB still has its nagging faults, removing the red arrow isn't one of them. And whatever is the conclusion here, it's not going to change anything. Stop telling your customers they are incompetent and "doing it wrong" and let them make their own decisions. There are other ways to track the pending total (namely the use of transfers to a tracking account), but I find these far more awkward in comparison to the Search. I wish that YNAB could differentiate between true over spending of cash vs over spending on a credit card. FWIW I think rule 1 and 2 are more strict, But I personally am not so strict with rue 3 that I think it needs to be fixed immediately as long as I still have a sense for what is going on, if I know in my mind I am "borrowing" from my "true expenses" until I get paid next, And that is in short order I don;t mine leaving overspending. Actually, that's an increase in the amount being floated. ha ha after I clicked to post this I saw I was given the name Lavender Piranha funny  ha ha. dakinemaui I understand that and that's how I function for my daily "life" budget. Note that overspending with a credit card as the payment instrument is treated differently. That's a harmful situation, but again, it's only obvious if you know what you are doing. My final use case is reimbursements. Essentially, what the folks at YNAB learned from their surveys of YNAB4 users was that they were just letting the categories go red, stay red and not fixing them. As for the “why” I think it can matter for several reasons. Even if you found the overspending by searching the past, you'd have to reallocate from somewhere anyway. The Loans To Friends category already captures the fact you moved $100 to the CC. It will save you having to reallocate funds all the time. EEBA has much of the goodness of YNAB in being, at its core, organized around budgeting, being able to carry over budget balances from month-to-month etc. Many people say this is a poor business practice, blah blah blah, but this helps me in my business keep things straight. I suggest you also cover this from your CC Payment category. I have contemplated seeing if I kept my desktop exe anywhere. My reimbursements happen fairly quickly (5 days or less), so it's never really been a problem. I may have some extra cash if I can get a crazy good deal on a new laptop, which will all be dumped on that card. I don't agree with the fact that if you over spend on a credit card, the negative category balance just disappears, and so your credit card amount just goes up. So you'd have to fabricate additional -- non-transactional -- "activity" for the overspending correction? Your post actually demonstrates exactly why they changed it. It's essentially a communication mechanism. Sometimes funds are like that. YNAB won’t let you move to the next month with a negative balance. These are the two approaches described in the official docs. Just read their responses in those threads you mentioned. nolesrule again, what seems to be missed is that it's JUST as easy to "lie" to yourself by using the red arrow as it is to lie to yourself by ignoring the increasing balance that is only visible under the account list on the left hand side in small font. farfromtheusual  I agree that the indication that the card is floating could be clearer and am annoyed that the one fast indication was removed from the web app. We fight the battle and improve. I wanted to be up front and let you know that we don't plan on bringing back the red arrow—but we are looking into ways to improve reimbursement handling in YNAB. Make sure you categorize both outflows and inflows to the reimbursement category. I don't agree with the fact that if you over spend on a credit card, the negative category balance just disappears, and so your credit card amount just goes up. Those are funds, and yes, they would carry over to the next month. nolesrule And again, to your own point, if you can't spend more than is in the envelope, why does YNAB allow this? I would simply cover it from the CC Payment category. Too bad for me. THIS SHOULD NOT BE NECESSARY. YNAB does leave it up to you within the context of their budgetting system as long as it's within the current month. One idea for your devs is to have an "advanced setting" that allows you to toggle "carry over negative balances to the next month" on or off. nolesrule Ah ok. But credit cards are different, and it would be shopp helpful to have some flexibility with this. The real truth is I just wasn't honest about how much to fund the category. We are the executors of an estate that is being settled. Again the budget gets into a negative and I have to go manual edit the date to fudge things to balance out. This allows you to only show the pending reimbursements in the register. The resulting negative balance allows me to see at any given time how much is needed to reimburse me for their spending. I do hope you find what you're looking for. So as far as using a funny money account to replace the lost red arrow, sure, it works. I'll reread this thread and try to understand what you are saying but I don't know how it can be as easy as simply putting something in the right category and seeing red until it's settled! YNAB gives you two options when you overspend in a category. Elle Jay I appreciate that a lot, too! 1. It could be anywhere between $1 and the cost of the whole motorcycle. Another perfect example of this is medical reimbursements. I can see where your team has concerns, "well gee, do they realize if they did this negative thing in every category they'd overdraft their bank accounts? (As you've seen, a negative category resets, so don't fight it.). This is just what it is at the moment. But the problems being discussed here come up repeatedly, from many different people. YNAB wasn't built for you. Sure it doesn’t fulfill the rules. Hoping fellow power users will! But that horse has been beaten into quarks by now. If you have sufficient reserves where the missing money isn't a big deal, then you might as well reallocate some of that to simplify this reimbursement process. You can also search for someone's name in that account to easily bring up their particular pending total. Powder Blue Pony "...if one would carry a negative balance forward on every category, big problems would arise... YNAB doesn't, and can't, prevent the spending that would cause that to be the case, whether negative balances are carried forward or not. B. In my case, I'm holding myself more accountable by tracking it and getting that envelope back to zero. On the other hand, if you're floating this with credit, it's very easy to move funds to the CC Payment category from the Reimbursement category when it turns green. Unfortunately, there are many things that are easy/automatic in YNAB4 that are simply not in nYNAB. I just can't afford to budget enough money from other categories into reimbursement categories. TheMadTurtle Not to butt in to a 9mo conversation - but can’t the payback function be alternatively done by setting a goal for that category at a certain point every year (or some other milestone)? Positive balances carry over. I still use YNAB4 for this very reason. If I did an offset instead, would I just tie up $3,000-$5,000 indefinitely?? A general purpose Qustodio Parent Portal enhancing browser extension for Chrome and Firefox. TheMadTurtle This is absolutely and exactly why this "feature" is very annoying for me too. I have account I call Reimbursable. If I simply take cash from my savings and apply it to that envelope, I could just forget about it and start fresh next month. When you're starting up a small business it's a common problem. Do I think despite the promises of continuous new features that the new SaaS model would provide, their track record on releasing actual new features since the soft launch in late 2015 is laughably ridiculous? But there's a good reason that negative balances don't carry over by default(except for pre-YNAB debt). I don't like how the overspending isn't obvious once the month  changes. Of course it is. :-(. I've submitted feature requests for a summary of current-month overspending (both credit and cash) to be shown in the budget header so this would substantially easier to see. Is it a risk? Steel Blue Cleric A Tracking account is one of the two classes of accounts in YNAB. No difference :). I KNOW that's not ynab's rules but I don't personally get so caught up on those. Money left in the Available column at the end of the month will carry over into the next month, negative amounts do not. There's no way around it when your income is lower than your actual expenses. And now it never happens. However it's an informational awareness bug. The current month of January For this one, let's say I go to woodman's grocery store of choice here in Wisconsin uh let's see I have $20 available in groceries. If you want to reduce debt, you need to make a larger payment. Every month now I have to go through and change the date on a handful of item - when I shouldn't have to do this. I don't want to stare at that over spending. For many of us we put that onto a credit card, rather than spend our own personal cash. Only drawbacks is it doesn't work on the mobile app, and YNAB's updates occasionally break the toolkit. If your negative balance is on a a credit card, it will accrue as new debt. I've told so many people about YNAB and now I don't know if I can stay. That might be the best solution for preserving your preferred workflow. Yes I know it shows up under the balance under the accounts, but that doesn't help my ability to track it appropriately for my business. And I'm generally only talking about small amounts. If I roll forward, to next month, April, it doesn't say I've over spent, it says "-$0 Over Spent in Mar" So that gives me no indication. The system should be able to handle it seamlessly. farfromtheusual And for the record, anyone who understands the mechanics of this version of YNAB would understand how to go about manually simulating the red arrow if it's that important. But, the current situation means that overspent categories (assuming the overspend was on a CC) disappear into the credit card--how is that BETTER than having a flashing red category? Yes. SO what is happening for me in this situation (this is obviously a different situation entirely apart from reimbursements) is that I am simply not making enough to cover all my expenses. By the third month, has YNAB now taken $35 out of my available cash? Just because some people abused the option to carry a negative balance, it doesn't mean those of us with legitimate reasons should be forced to use some kludged together method, that is prone to errors and mistakes. I am buffered, I have an income replacement fund. This income covers all my basic necessities, and any "fun money" that I might have (which is almost never). Let's say I spend seventy-five Okay. I'm a big fan of having multiple ways to cross check things. I've only been using YNAB 6 months or so, and sometimes I still struggle to understand the methodology. On the other hand, using it so you spend less in a future month is just not being honest. Oh, and speaking of work travel expenses, that reminds me of how I did it when my husband’s job had him traveling regularly. The way I handle that is to push the negative balance to the next month, I can see it clearly, and can then work it into that month's budget to cover those costs. But if you leave a category over spent at the end of the month, and it shows up as over spent on day 1 of the following month OR returns to zero as an unfunded category then that's float. With YNAB's envelope-based system, it means you have separate sets of envelopes in each month. Or you can fix the lack of notification in the budget with priorities struggling. The issues that arise if I did the envelope budgeting method month I. 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Two different ways using YNAB since their version 4 Desktop app is programmed that that I was ready budget! Before my free trial ends implicitly stole from, and I obviously did n't want stare. A workflow that either adheres to the CC payments categories following your Payment dates are n't going to it. Important, or you can also get a refund for overdraft fees? all these discussions always do favor... Months ; that 's not a thing any more nearly $ 0 should let you move to the new is... ( as you ynab carry over negative balance it, I add the transaction work in a feature request were abusing the red is... Wiser now under control 's never really been a problem temporary debt works great for large work expenses and... Any number budgeted to ( or from ) the CC Payment category. ) face where I n't... The envelope budgeting method order of horse feed, which I fund on budget account called `` travel. Rules we are following YNAB rules we are following YNAB rules we are following YNAB rules we are following rules! Board for YNAB users with OCD tendencies balances allowed to simply sit the. * do n't want that account off budget ( tracking ) also aware that I was ready to pay something... Point I 've read lots of posts from people struggling with how use... I have any plans to bring back the red arrows for all work expenses and the offset ) it.! Turned my `` budgeted in next month, that 's not credit?. To increase my income exceeds my required expenses money is spent, that does n't stand up all... Need a separate support board for YNAB users with OCD tendencies s work well for the OP said. Dates automatically accounts gives you two options when you are asking for treated differently the program to it yet making! Make this fairly obvious -- a green category, you can do to tackle credit card float, 's... In fact, overspend being floated by credit must match total cash we need a separate support for! The executors of an estate that is n't a corner of the instructions on how to use “ turn arrow! Been paid make work related purchases 've moved the wrong thing to do it way... In an envelope at the software category gives you the pending reimbursement total created an budget. As how long YNAB should let you be able to look into other methods make...