I just wish it could be both :). I may have some extra cash if I can get a crazy good deal on a new laptop, which will all be dumped on that card. I use the toolkit, so I don't know if this is what shows in toolkit or YNAB without it, BUT when I went in and added a second rent payment it immediately showed me that I am overspent in rent by making the category red. Isn't this the same thing, just said two different ways? To some of us "clear" involves SEEING the rolled over debt in a category next month. But then the same ol’ debate as far as if the red arrow pointed us to a better or worse budgeting lifestyle continues. :) I don’t have the symbols on my iPad or else I’d draw the equation like a big nerd. If you do that, it's pretty simple. now I can't. I'm sure there are plenty of others that have that challenge, too, especially when first starting out with YNAB. You already carry positive balances forwards so it is deceptive that negative balances don't do the same. I get some people are not responsible, but I'm being punished because nYNAB doesn't want to have grown-ups manage their money. Give us a try and let us know what you think! You just don't agree with the way they automate it. That is crazy! They aren't going to add options that would potentially allow that, because it would hurt the very people who really do need a budget. I'd almost think it could. I'm trying mvelope, but I've heard there's similar issues, goodbudget I'll try it too and keep looking for others, I'm not looking forward to all the work with these trials and experimenting. I can understand venting, but mischaracterizing creates a mess of true/false statements for new users to wade through as they're looking for answers. The problem arises when a bill is taken on the 1st day of the month but then again on last day of the same month. The debt -- every penny of what you owe -- is shown on the left in the accounts area. Obviously I had to make sure I was overall covered not to go to zero, but that’s where the numbers up above the budget kept me on track. Don't get me wrong, this should not be the default behavior. nolesrule Apparently a lot of people don't because there's an awful lot of noise about it.... farfromtheusual Which just means they really *don't* understand the mechanics of YNAB, or it's not that important, or both. nolesrule All I am saying is in the current implimentation A user could overspend on the 1st of the month and choose to ignore it, and ynab will allow them to carry that all month long. Temporarily overspend, then use the reimbursement to cover it You can learn more about those options in our reimbursement Help Doc. Steel Blue Cleric I know this is an old thread but this is exactly the reason I found this! But until someone gets to that point floating overspend is easier and can work if they have enough stashed in "true expenses" categories and/or an emergency fund they can just "borrow" against that to not overdraft the only difference is they are not bothering to explicitly record this because of such a short time frame, that's what happened to me this last week. I am buffered, I have an income replacement fund. It doesn't matter to my budget that the autopay happens a few days after the scheduled payment. Future Budgeting & To be Budgeted Once you budget into the future, your most up-to-date To be Budgeted number is in the future-est month. How are things over there? Have you logged a feature request about this problem? Con #7 – Can’t Carry Negative Balances Forward One of the best features about YNAB is that it lets you carry positive balances on categories forward to the next month. Close. I bought YNAB4. ! YES! Previously, I was able to carry that balance from one month to the next, reflecting that they don't necessarily make that reimbursement exactly at the end of each month. dakinemaui true, I usually ignore it though, lol. For my cell phone bill that I used as an example above, scheduled in my YNAB register for March 28th, the memo looks like this: 4/01| |Autopay|102.33|Closes 8th (budget in previous month). If you always fund all your goals it’s fine, but if you don’t, it becomes really easy to miss some debt being created. right now I’m learning how to design apps on the side. That's a harmful situation, but again, it's only obvious if you know what you are doing. It's simply more useful as a bookkeeping aid in the meantime. jlaws I just want to chime in, as a YNAB user for over 11 years, that I am 100% what nolesrule AND you just described in these previous 2 posts. I'm beyond frustrated with this. Sometimes payments for products I have ordered for other people leave me over spent across a month. (I assume you're talking about reimbursements ) You have to record transactions regardless, leaving what happens in the budget as the only consideration. (Budget interactions are automatic after setup with the first approach.) I think all any of us are asking for is the flexibility to choose which way we'd like to work with our money. This is useful, especially if you've gotten busy over the last days of the month or on vacation, like dakinemaui said. I KNOW that's not ynab's rules but I don't personally get so caught up on those. 2. And I will say that you've come to the wrong shop if you're looking for consistency with the developers. One thing that would help with the reimbursements at least would be a register that tracks inter-envelope moves. My checks vary, so some months that's possible. If I did an offset instead, would I just tie up $3,000-$5,000 indefinitely?? This would result in less (possibly no) timing-induced credit overspending. Anyway, this is a point of frustration, but I am a committed YNAB user and I respect that the developers are thoughtful about these things. You can still sidestep the method, but it requires more work, like making negative categories or entering income with transactions dated today. It makes reimbursement expense tracking harder if moves are unrecorded. nolesrule The over spent indicator is always Zero when a month rolls over - always. I’d have had a blind eye getting monthly “reset”. nolesrule I like the way the credit card payments category works, though it can be confusing to some new users. I have to admit I like how the new YNAB pulls data from my banks frequently automatically now, I find myself using it more because of it, as it's current as sometimes I'll have a bunch of receipts that I have sit and enter, now it's just sit and categorize them :). @nolesrul Brandon I'm glad I searched for this subject before my free trial ends. The cynical part of me (wait...idk if I have a non-cynical part anymore) doesn't expect anything to come from either of these requests though but I though it was worth sharing. dakinemaui  has come up with a good solution that has worked for him and others but not the way I would prefer to handle my situation. But I digress. Makes no sense to me. nolesrule  What do you mean by "YNAB will correct any overspending you left in the previous month if you don't fix it, by removing it from the money you can budget going forward." In the same month as the purchase, this reduces overspending as you'd expect. I don't mind looking at it for the month, partly because I get paid at the end of ther month, which hits right before the first, so I can often catch up my over spending at that point. I agree there are some use cases where the UI could use some improvement, like being able to see that you've added to the credit card debt. If you know this month your rent is coming out on the 1st AND the 29th, then you have to make sure you have enough money budgeted to cover the spending on the 29th in THIS month. Any unspent amount in your categories gets automatically rolled over into the next month’s balance. Yeah, I felt that way for years, until I realized how many people really were screwing themselves over by using the red arrow, including responsible adults who manage their money well. I really liked the old YNAB. But if you can't even cover it with your emergency fund, well, that's a real and serious problem. You can leave the overspend alone, or you can “turn the arrow to the right”. Agent99 this is exactly what I'm referring to,  thank you! It's very clear if you should move funds, and very clear if you've moved the wrong amount. nolesrule Yeah, I get that (ad naseum). That feature made all the differences- seeing red stirred me up into action. YNAB does leave it up to you within the context of their budgetting system as long as it's within the current month. My final use case is reimbursements. dakinemaui I like to say that the decision to make a purchase on a credit card and the decision to make a credit card payment are two independent acts and should be viewed as such when reviewing the budget. I'm just not really following how the offset account will work. BUT, that just doesn't happen anymore with nYNAB, and it is OKAY, trust me. Regarding reimbursements, this is what I do: I have a lot of travel expenses for work and so I have category called "Work Travel". To others that involves SEEING it in the account balance. The bottom line is, it's their product and its your money. (Just going by the myriad of other workflows that could be altered to save effort. Can't. The answers to those two questions would reveal if anything I have to say can help. For example, I budgeted $20/mo for my trash service, which is … I do hope you find what you're looking for. nolesrule I've tried. It's purpose-built for this exact thing, which YNAB isn't, and works really well for keeping track of who owes you what. That's easy enough. The money listed as available is less than it should be, and....well I this plagued me for months until I realized what was going on, and now I know that after the first of the month I have to go back and change the dates of a hand full of transactions to make this work. The problem is that I do not always get paid back in the same month as the initial transaction. No warning, no indication anything is wrong. farfromtheusual I've read lots of posts from people struggling with credit card payments. I think if you fully consider the ramifications of a rolling correction period, you'll quickly find it's really not an improvement. But, sometimes it’s not always easy … I suggest you make it a habit to look back at last month's budget a few days into the new month (after transactions have posted/imported/reconciled). It's lovely to say that you just don't spend money that you don't have, but reality is that sometimes pure needs exceed the income. Then when I finally get paid, I have to remember to put the money somewhere else instead of back into the correct category. I've also contemplated making my own script to handle this, but I haven't wanted to dedicate the time. bevocat responsible adults are also trusted to make the decision that is best for THEM. So the to-be-reimbursed amount should be the only thing carried on the card. No, you don't get the reality of the  situation if that's your advice. If your category had been overspent in credit (negative yellow Available), the amount you overspent will be represented as an increased balance of your credit card account. I'm not making prescriptive or normative statements. I fly several times a year to see family. Maybe it will be in the future, but right now you don’t have enough capital to be running it. Due to the user interface, the month changeover is the best location to implement this "last resort" logic. I agree with needing the ability to carry forward an over spent category. I have one such headache. Hides the "Total Available" section in the budget inspector. Actually, that's an increase in the amount being floated. But nothing returns to zero... there's debt. The debt owed is captured in the CC account balance the moment you swipe the card. Bottom line: if you answered No to either question above, then there are some changes you could make to better align YNAB with the reality of your situation. A year or so ago I looked at my old YNAB4 budget (which went back to YNAB Pro days) and I was shocked at how many red arrows I saw, scattered on so many different categories for so many different reasons. Basically in the old YNAB you could budget $100 to a category, spend $125, and then carry the -$25 balance over to the next month. That's it. Plus, you’ll also get a Credit Card Payment category added to your budget itself with a monthly target amount of $300. This is a perspective thing, the way YNAB does it now, it is easier for me to ignore the mounting debt than if the over spent categories stayed over spent. To pay for the overspent categories on the 31st but then the same category used for rest! Regard to this practice weeks of the software, but it already has a large order of horse feed not... 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